Mobile browser
Atkins, Type 2 Diabetes, A1c, LDL, Blood Pressure, & Supplements?

Question:
Atkins, Type 2 Diabetes, A1c, LDL, Blood Pressure, & Supplements 1. I posted this message to low-carb where it was suggested alt.support.diabetes may be a better place. 2. I've been lurking here for a few days and reading tons of messages but haven't found any discussions about a situation I'm in. Sorry about the length of this post. Hopefully T2's can respond to questions in points 21. & 23. below. This post may be of interest to users that are supportive of low-carb and that are interested in detail. 3. I'm a Type 2 diabetic since 1987, 59yrs, male, 5'10" with a reference weight of 223 when I started Atkins on 2003Jun01. 4. I started Atkins a week after visiting my Internist (internal medicine and diabetes specialist doctor) This was a follow-up visit from a 2002Dec05 visit when he said I needed to get my blood glucose (BG) A1c at 8.1% back under control, and to make changes to lower my LDL which was at 3.38mmol/l (132mg/dl). My HDL was 1.06mmol/l (4aa/i) and triglycerides (TG) were 1.44mmol/l (128mg/dl). 5. My Internist prescribed Metformin which was previously prescribed but which I hadn't taken since 1998Jan26. Annual results for A1c since 1998 were always within acceptable limits, without medications. 6. Since 1997 when I started asking for and getting all lab reports, my A1c readings have ranged from 6.0 to 7.2%, my LDL from 2.04 to 3.16 (80 to 123), HDL from .79 to 1.16 (31 to 45), and TG from 1.19 to 2.28 (106 to 203). I had no history of high blood pressure (BP). 7. On 2003Jan23, my General Practitioner's (GP) lab results were A1c 8.8%, LDL 2.76 (108), HDL 1.16 (45), & TG 1.62 (144). Although my GP said my BP was normal (130/80), he decided to prescribe an ACE inhibitor (Ramipril) because I had experienced a day of Vertigo-like symptoms when my BP went to 180/110 (one time only). He said Ramipril had side benefits of protecting kidneys. 9. For the 2003May27 return visit to my Internist, my weight was still 223, A1c 6.9%, LDL 3.29 (128), HDL 1.18 (46), TG 1.33 (118) & BP 9/1. The only dietary change I made since 2002Dec was to stop eating French fries and potatoes. My Internist said my LDL was much too high for diabetics and LDL must be reduced to less than 2.50 (98). He said that since I am diabetic, I am automatically in the high risk category for Coronary Artery Disease (CAD) and that my LDL must be lower than 2.50 (98) to reduce my risk of CAD. (I found the cholesterol guidelines at http://www.postgrad- med.com/issues/2002/08_02/pearlman.htm) and on many other URL's.) 10. My Internist requested I go on a controlled program (called the TNT program, I believe) for taking Lipitor, a Statin, for reducing my LDL below 2.50 (98). This program would involve going on a low-fat low-cal diet, exercising, and a weight reduction program. 11. Since Ramipril had little effect on my BP since I started taking it on 2003Apr01, he doubled the dose from 5mg to 10mg, added a diuretic, and prescribed a BP meter for me to take my own BP readings. 12. All the changes and rationales were a complete shock to me. My A1c, LDL, and BP readings which were previously acceptable, were no longer acceptable. I was now going to be pumped full of prescription drugs and I was going to be put on this low-fat low-cal diet. 13. With the basic info my Internist gave me, I Googled the net and eventually found exactly what he was trying to do. The one aspect that disturbed me the most was that he was prescribing all these changes and drugs, without first having exhausted all natural methods for accomplishing the same end result. 14. That's when I started to think about Atkins and to check info at the Atkins web page on 2003May30. It didn't take long to understand the principles of low carb. Also, I saw Atkins as a diet I could easily live with. Counting carbs seemed much easier than counting calories or fat. I saw that with Atkins I could keep on eating what I liked, except to cut sugars 100% and to minimize all carbs. 15. I have seldom ever drank alcohol, coffee, tea, milk or juices (except for maybe 5-10 servings of each, per year)…I just drink water and caffeine-free diet Coke. I've never used any other products with artificial sweeteners and never used margarine. I've always liked my butter, fats, breads, donuts, junk foods, etc. tho. I had never taken supplementary vitamins or minerals in my life. I have also always spurned all low-fat products. 16. The only previous diet I had ever been on, was based on Canada's Good Health Eating Guide, eating what I normally ate (except for the junk food), but in substantially reduced servings. Unfortunately exercise has never been in my blood, except for yard and household work. 17. I bought Atkins book and noticed his web page has much of the stuff in the book, but the book includes other key information that filled certain gaps. After doing my first low-carb shopping trip, I officially started Induction on 2003Jun01, knowing that I would likely have a battle on my hands with my Internist and his program at my 2003Jun02 appointment. 18. 2003Jun02 arrived and I told my Internist that we hadn't explored natural means for improving my numbers and that I had started the Atkins diet. He already knew I was not keen on taking any kind of prescribed medications. His first reaction was "oh no, the high fat and protein diet…the complete opposite of all medically accepted guidelines". He acknowledged Atkins would definitely result in weight loss but noted that Atkins benefits are only short-term. He then asked me if I had any information that proves Atkins will extend my life….because the program he was recommending for me has a foundation of countless medically accepted studies to do just that … to reduce risk of CAD and therefore extend my life. I told him about "Atkins For Life" but he couldn't believe there was any proof there. 19. I told him I was still taking Metformin, that I stopped Ramipril, and that I hadn't started the Diuretic. I asked if he had any recommendations for medications while on Atkins and he said to do and take whatever I wanted (absolving himself of any responsibility). The only deal I could make with him was to agree that if my LDL wasn't below 2.50 in 2 months, that I would go on his program. 20. From that moment on, I stopped all prescribed medications and continued with Atkins Induction, supplemented by a senior strength multi-vitamin/mineral. I was and am determined to demonstrate to my Internist that all my lab results will improve. However, I am a little concerned about improvements to LDL because Atkins himself and numerous cases on this Low-Carb group indicated LDL will either remain the same or increase slightly. Although HDL will likely increase more, my Internist isn't looking at my HDL or ratio. 21. I have enormous motivation to show my Internist I can use Atkins and natural methods to improve all my vital statistics of concern, including LDL. 22. If anyone in this group has situations similar to mine with successes in lowering LDL, I would appreciate any comments or recommendations. 23. My Atkins progress to-date Day 28 (started log of all meals and stats on 2003Jun06) - Have been on Induction all the time. - Went from 223 to 210 in 10 days, but have been stuck at 208-210 to day 28….suspect the reason is too much fat/protein …. Not concerned because I believe losses will come … May have to try cutting out caffeine-free diet Coke (Aspartame). - On day 6 had uncontrolled leg cramps in both legs…found the solution was Ca/Mg/Po which cured the problem the next day. - BG readings 2-4 times a day, range between 5.2 (94) and 7.9 (142). BG readings, which now avg about 6.0 (108) per day, have generally been getting lower with time, on Atkins. - Ketones every day, between 4 & 8 (40 & 80 US) (moderate to large) - BP (6 readings per day) systolic day 1 avg 140 now avg 120, diastolic day 1 avg 80, now avg 70 - Energy and alertness levels have improved - Starting to think the previously unthinkable….exercise - Improvement in skin colour, smoothness, and eczema 23. I have purchased additional supplements for Chromium 200mg, B Complex, Vitamin C 300mg, Zinc 50mg, and Vitamin E 400 IU, but haven't started taking them yet. The Multi-vitamin/mineral supplement has all except Vitamin E, but in much smaller doses. I'm currently reluctant to take these yet because I don't like the idea of popping so many pills and because I'd like to see if the basic supplement is sufficient. Does anyone here have any comments, especially pertaining to LDL reduction, with taking larger doses of these supplements?
Answers:
The only comment I have is that I hope you write back after the two months and let us know your results, We are not doctors. Some are on Atkins, others use portion control, others use other methods, You are determined to prove your doctor wrong and you rigtht, I hope it works,. But what concerns me is that you lost the weight in ten days and in l8 days you havent lost any more, How much protein are you eating that you are having too high ketones in your urine, That is not a good thing. I portion control and I do take meds, My numbers are all fabulous and I know that I couldnt have done it alone, Your doctor is not a holistic practictioner, Perhaps there is someone in your town that does treat diabetes holistically, I personally dont believe in it. I did read just yesterday that people who are on the Atkins diet , usually gain it right back with even more weight than before they started, I said usually not always. The fact that you are at a standstll after only ten days makes me worry about the effectiveness of it. Remember natural isnt always better, Think of all that butter you have eaten clogging your arteries all these years, Not saying that margaribne is beter, I eat sojmething called Smart Balance which works for me. Keeps us apprised of your progress. You are a human guinea pig to me, and I mean that in the best of ways, Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
Answers:
Vic wrote: . . . The only deal I could make with him was to agree that if my LDL wasn't below 2.50 in 2 months, that I would go on his program. The Atkins book says that many people experience an increase in lipids after they start the diet. Lipids drop after 3 months. A check after 2 months is probably too soon to see if you will see a benefit from the diet. Cookie
Answers:
"Vic" <Vic~usa.net wrote in message news:utfrfvomp6v864skammbhsoidmp787eqal~4ax.com... <snip 4. I started Atkins a week after visiting my Internist (internal medicine and diabetes specialist doctor) This was a follow-up visit from a 2002Dec05 visit when he said I needed to get my blood glucose (BG) A1c at 8.1% back under control, and to make changes to lower my LDL which was at 3.38mmol/l (132mg/dl). My HDL was 1.06mmol/l (42mg/dl) and triglycerides (TG) were 1.44mmol/l (128mg/dl). Yes, your numbers are too high. 5. My Internist prescribed Metformin which was previously prescribed but which I hadn't taken since 1998Jan26. Annual results for A1c since 1998 were always within acceptable limits, without medications. Why had you not taken it? 6. Since 1997 when I started asking for and getting all lab reports, my A1c readings have ranged from 6.0 to 7.2%, my LDL from 2.04 to 3.16 (80 to 123), HDL from .79 to 1.16 (31 to 45), and TG from 1.19 to 2.28 (106 to 203). I had no history of high blood pressure (BP). Your A1c sounds high. What is normal for your lab? Mine is <6.0. 7. On 2003Jan23, my General Practitioner's (GP) lab results were A1c 6.8%, LDL 2.76 (108), HDL 1.16 (45), & TG 1.62 (144). Although my GP said my BP was normal (130/80), he decided to prescribe an ACE inhibitor (Ramipril) because I had experienced a day of Vertigo-like symptoms when my BP went to 180/110 (one time only). He said Ramipril had side benefits of protecting kidneys. 130/80 is not normal. It's too high, especially for a diabetic. 8. For the 2003May27 return visit to my Internist, my weight was still 223, A1c 6.9%, LDL 3.29 (128), HDL 1.18 (46), TG 1.33 (118) & BP 142/90. The only dietary change I made since 2002Dec was to stop eating French fries and potatoes. My Internist said my LDL was much too high for diabetics and LDL must be reduced to less than 2.50 (98). He said that since I am diabetic, I am automatically in the high risk category for Coronary Artery Disease (CAD) and that my LDL must be lower than 2.50 (98) to reduce my risk of CAD. (I found the cholesterol guidelines at http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/20- 02/08_02/pearlman.htm) and on many other URL's.) French Fries are not good for anyone to eat. But why would you stop eating potatoes? Did you find that they spike you? 9. My Internist requested I go on a controlled program (called the TNT program, I believe) for taking Lipitor, a Statin, for reducing my LDL below 2.50 (98). This program would involve going on a low-fat low-cal diet, exercising, and a weight reduction program. Okay... 10. Since Ramipril had little effect on my BP since I started taking it on 2003Apr01, he doubled the dose from 5mg to 10mg, added a diuretic, and prescribed a BP meter for me to take my own BP readings. Good! 11. All the changes and rationales were a complete shock to me. My A1c, LDL, and BP readings which were previously acceptable, were no longer acceptable. I was now going to be pumped full of prescription drugs and I was going to be put on this low-fat low-cal diet. That's right. They keep lowering the numbers. They've even lowered the numbers as to when diabetes is diagnosed. Drs. and scientists learn more and more and changes are made. 12. With the basic info my Internist gave me, I Googled the net and eventually found exactly what he was trying to do. The one aspect that disturbed me the most was that he was prescribing all these changes and drugs, without first having exhausted all natural methods for accomplishing the same end result. Exactly! And exactly as he should do. Would you prefer that he give you some other method that may or may not work? If he did that, you could die or suffer complications. "Natural" is not necessarily good. 13. That's when I started to think about Atkins and to check info at the Atkins web page on 2003May30. It didn't take long to understand the principles of low carb. Also, I saw Atkins as a diet I could easily live with. Counting carbs seemed much easier than counting calories or fat. I saw that with Atkins I could keep on eating what I liked, except to cut sugars 100% and to minimize all carbs. So... You decided to go against what your Dr. said and wing in on your own. Have you ever seen a dietician? 14. I have seldom ever drank alcohol, coffee, tea, milk or juices (except for maybe 5-10 servings of each, per year).I just drink water and caffeine-free diet Coke. I've never used any other products with artificial sweeteners and never used margarine. I've always liked my butter, fats, breads, donuts, junk foods, etc. tho. I had never taken supplementary vitamins or minerals in my life. I have also always spurned all low-fat products. Why would you spurn all low fat products? They're not all bad. 15. The only previous diet I had ever been on, was based on Canada's Good Health Eating Guide, eating what I normally ate (except for the junk food), but in substantially reduced servings. Unfortunately exercise has never been in my blood, except for yard and household work. That might work for a person without diabetes, but probably won't work for a person who has it. Exercise is also vital to controlling diabetes. 16. I bought Atkins book and noticed his web page has much of the stuff in the book, but the book includes other key information that filled certain gaps. After doing my first low-carb shopping trip, I officially started Induction on 2003Jun01, knowing that I would likely have a battle on my hands with my Internist and his program at my 2003Jun02 appointment. Probably... 17. 2003Jun02 arrived and I told my Internist that we hadn't explored natural means for improving my numbers and that I had started the Atkins diet. He already knew I was not keen on taking any kind of prescribed medications. His first reaction was "oh no, the high fat and protein diet.the complete opposite of all medically accepted guidelines". He acknowledged Atkins would definitely result in weight loss but noted that Atkins benefits are only short-term. He then asked me if I had any information that proves Atkins will extend my life..because the program he was recommending for me has a foundation of countless medically accepted studies to do just that . to reduce risk of CAD and therefore extend my life. I told him about "Atkins For Life" but he couldn't believe there was any proof there. He's right. There is no proof there. 18. I told him I was still taking Metformin, that I stopped Ramipril, and that I hadn't started the Diuretic. I asked if he had any recommendations for medications while on Atkins and he said to do and take whatever I wanted (absolving himself of any responsibility). The only deal I could make with him was to agree that if my LDL wasn't below 2.50 in 2 months, that I would go on his program. Okay... 19. From that moment on, I stopped all prescribed medications and continued with Atkins Induction, supplemented by a senior strength multi-vitamin/mineral. I was and am determined to demonstrate to my Internist that all my lab results will improve. However, I am a little concerned about improvements to LDL because Atkins himself and numerous cases on this Low-Carb group indicated LDL will either remain the same or increase slightly. Although HDL will likely increase more, my Internist isn't looking at my HDL or ratio. 20. I have enormous motivation to show my Internist I can use Atkins and natural methods to improve all my vital statistics of concern, including LDL. You might have motivation, but that doesn't mean the diet will work for you. 21. If anyone in this group has situations similar to mine with successes in lowering LDL, I would appreciate any comments or recommendations. Get your BG down. That will help. 22. My Atkins progress to-date Day 28 (started log of all meals and stats on 2003Jun06) - Have been on Induction all the time. - Went from 223 to 210 in 10 days, but have been stuck at 208-210 to day 28..suspect the reason is too much fat/protein .. Not concerned because I believe losses will come . May have to try cutting out caffeine-free diet Coke (Aspartame). - On day 6 had uncontrolled leg cramps in both legs.found the solution was Ca/Mg/Po which cured the problem the next day. Not a good idea to take those supplements without first determining a deficiency. - BG readings 2-4 times a day, range between 5.2 (94) and 7.9 (142). BG readings, which now avg about 6.0 (108) per day, have generally been getting lower with time, on Atkins. - Ketones every day, between 4 & 8 (40 & 80 US) (moderate to large) - BP (6 readings per day) systolic day 1 avg 140 now avg 120, diastolic day 1 avg 80, now avg 70 - Energy and alertness levels have improved - Starting to think the previously unthinkable..exercise - Improvement in skin colour, smoothness, and eczema 23. I have purchased additional supplements for Chromium 200mg, Chromium is not necessarily safe, especially for diabetics. B Complex, Vitamin C 300mg, Zinc 50mg, and Vitamin E 400 IU, but haven't started taking them yet. Why the Zinc? The others seem safe enough to take. The Multi-vitamin/mineral supplement has all except Vitamin E, but in much smaller doses. I'm currently reluctant to take these yet because I don't like the idea of popping so many pills and because I'd like to see if the basic supplement is sufficient. Does anyone here have any comments, especially pertaining to LDL reduction, with taking larger doses of these supplements? I don't think any of the supplements you are taking will help with cholesterol. The supplement that *can* help is niacin, but it's not the OTC stuff. It has to be prescribed by a Dr. and you must be monitored frequently. It's also not necessarily the best choice for a diabetic because it can raise BG. -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Answers:
"Julie Bove" <jnospambove~bestweb.net wrote in message news:vfs4t76e02gp5d~corp.supernews.com... : : "Vic" <Vic~usa.net wrote in message : news:utfrfvomp6v864skammbhsoidmp787eqal~4ax.com... : : I don't think any of the supplements you are taking will : help with cholesterol. The supplement that *can* help is : niacin, but it's not the OTC : stuff. It has to be prescribed by a Dr. and you must be : monitored frequently. It's also not necessarily the best : choice for a diabetic because it can raise BG. Julie.. beg to differ with you on this one, my new doctor told me to start taking Niacin (Inositol Hexanicotinate) which is the Flush Free stuff. Said to start at 1 a day, and work my way up over a few weeks, to 3x a day. and after 3months come back for new blood tests to see if it's helping. It hasn't raised my BG yet. LOL and looking at the grass wrong some days seems to raise it. was $3.98 for 100 of the 500mg at Walmart. RK T1 5/00 : : -- : Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ : :
Answers:
In article <12147-3EFDDDA8-17~storefull-2195.public.lawson.webtv.net, Ronetta~webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) wrote: I did read just yesterday that people who are on the Atkins diet , usually gain it right back with even more weight than before they started, I said usually not always. If/when they go off it. That's true of any weight loss diet. The thing is, if they go off it, they're not doing Atkins, because Atkins is not a weight loss diet. It a permanently changed way of eating. You don't go off it. I don't think it's quite fair to say that something doesn't work because people who *aren't* doing it do not meet with success, do you? Priscilla -- Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum. (thanks be to Brian Jones and topfive.com)
Answers:
I am also a type 2 diabetic diagnosed 3 years ago. I started Atkins June 1 2002 and stuck with it faithfully for 5 months. I lost 25 lbs and I was taken off my metformin as my blood sugar levels were excellent. 5.2 to 7.2 daily. A1C came in at 6.1 Dr was very happy. I started eating some things with more carbs than I should have after the 5 months, as I got bored and found weight loss slow and then I gave up completely. Since Oct 2002 to June 1, 2003 I gained back all 25 lbs plus another 10. June 1, 2003 I decided to go back on Atkins, I had put myself back on metformin in Mar 2003 as my blood sugar was averaging 8.0 to 10.2 daily from the carbs. Since June 1, 2003 I have lost 11 lbs and stopped my metformin again as blood sugar has gone back down to better levels. All I can say is I feel much better on Atkins, my blood sugar levels are excellent on Atkins. Weight loss has stopped since I lost the 11 lbs in the first 2 weeks, but have had a couple of cheat days. I also haven't gained over the last couple of weeks and I have lost some inches in waist line. My own feeling is if you feel good on Atkins and diabetic issues seem to be under better contol, then I would stick with it and realize this is for life not for the weight loss only. If you go back to eating the way you used to you will gain back the weight, which would happen on any other diet in existence. The old way of eating is what got you where you are today, the change must be for life. I often have to remind myself of this, especially when I cheat. My doctor told me I have protein spilling into my urine which is early signs of kidney disease, this is also from the diabetes. She wants to see my blood pressure drop also and is concerned about protecting my kidneys. I take many supplements, I take 1 daily vitamin, 1000 mg vitamin C, 400IU vitamin E, calcium, magnesium, 1000 mg niacin, chromium was recommended to my by my doctor as a help in controlling blood sugar levels, get the GTF Chromimum, (Glucose Tolerance Factor) 200 mcg, 2400 mg omega 369 oil capsules, and B complex 100. The guest that answered all your questions makes me wonder who they are and what qualifications they have to give you those answers but all I can say, is for me this works, it makes me feel more human and it really controls my blood sugar levels. I don't feel tired and I don't feel heavy and sluggish on this woe. That's my personal story, hope it helps.
Answers:
Hi Vic: Atkins, Type 2 Diabetes, A1c, LDL, Blood Pressure, & Supplements I am not on a low carb diet, but one quite a bit lower than the dietician a the diabetes center first recommended. (snipped 3. I'm a Type 2 diabetic since 1987, 59yrs, male, 5'10" with a reference weight of 223 when I started Atkins on 2003Jun01. It is too bad that you didn't make some dramatic lifestyle changes years ago. from a 2002Dec05 visit when he said I needed to get my blood glucose (BG) A1c at 8.1% back under control, and to make changes to lower my LDL which was at 3.38mmol/l (132mg/dl). My HDL was 1.06mmol/l (42mg/dl) and triglycerides (TG) were 1.44mmol/l (128mg/dl). 5. My Internist prescribed Metformin which was previously prescribed but which I hadn't taken since 1998Jan26. Annual results for A1c since 1998 were always within acceptable limits, without medications. Acceptable? The objective for a type 2 is to get as close to normal as possible. The 6% club frequently mentioned in this newsgroup is at the upper end of normal depending on the lab standards. My lab use 5.7% as the upper limit of normal. 6. Since 1997 when I started asking for and getting all lab reports, my A1c readings have ranged from 6.0 to 7.2%, Better than the average type 2. my LDL from 2.04 to 3.16 (80 to 123), HDL from .79 to 1.16 (31 to 45), and TG from 1.19 to 2.28 (106 to 203). (snipped) 7. On 2003Jan23, my General Practitioner's (GP) lab results were A1c 6.8%, LDL 2.76 (108), HDL 1.16 (45), & TG 1.62 (144). Although my GP said my BP was normal (130/80), he decided to prescribe an ACE inhibitor (Ramipril) because I had experienced a day of Vertigo-like symptoms when my BP went to 180/110 (one time only). He said Ramipril had side benefits of protecting kidneys. 8. For the 2003May27 return visit to my Internist, my weight was still 223, A1c 6.9%, LDL 3.29 (128), HDL 1.18 (46), TG 1.33 (118) & BP 142/90. The only dietary change I made since 2002Dec was to stop eating French fries and potatoes. My Internist said my LDL was much too high for diabetics and LDL must be reduced to less than 2.50 (98). Current recommendations are less than 100 for type 2s. He said that since I am diabetic, I am automatically in the high risk category for Coronary Artery Disease (CAD) and that my LDL must be lower than 2.50 (98) to reduce my risk of CAD. (I found the cholesterol guidelines at http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2002/08_02/pearlman.htm) and on many other URL's.) 9. My Internist requested I go on a controlled program (called the TNT program, I believe) for taking Lipitor, a Statin, for reducing my LDL below 2.50 (98). This program would involve going on a low-fat low-cal diet, exercising, and a weight reduction program. Calorie restriction is OK for a while. The quality of fat is probably more significant than some fixed percentage. 10. Since Ramipril had little effect on my BP since I started taking it on 2003Apr01, he doubled the dose from 5mg to 10mg, added a diuretic, and prescribed a BP meter for me to take my own BP readings. Weight reduction and exercise can often lower blood pressure. 11. All the changes and rationales were a complete shock to me. My A1c, LDL, and BP readings which were previously acceptable, were no longer acceptable. I was now going to be pumped full of prescription drugs and I was going to be put on this low-fat low-cal diet. The ACE inhibiter might not be bad in the short run. I used Accupril for about a year, but it got to the point that my blood pressure was too low. 12. With the basic info my Internist gave me, I Googled the net and eventually found exactly what he was trying to do. The one aspect that disturbed me the most was that he was prescribing all these changes and drugs, without first having exhausted all natural methods for accomplishing the same end result. It is up to you to take charge of your health. I can agree with you. 13. That's when I started to think about Atkins and to check info at the Atkins web page on 2003May30. It didn't take long to understand the principles of low carb. Also, I saw Atkins as a diet I could easily live with. Counting carbs seemed much easier than counting calories or fat. (snipped) If you get to the point that I have been at for the last year, you may get concerned about the proteins and fats as well. I had to up the consumption of monounsaturated fats and proteins to keep from losing more weight. I am 5'10" and weighed about 195 lbs. for thirty years. I did not look obese, but was overweight. I weighed 156 today which is 2 lbs. more than I weighed at age 20. 15. The only previous diet I had ever been on, was based on Canada's Good Health Eating Guide,... If it is anything like the USDA food pyrimid it needs revision. (snipped) 19. From that moment on, I stopped all prescribed medications and continued with Atkins Induction, supplemented by a senior strength multi-vitamin/mineral. I do the same thing plus I supplement with Vitamins C & E, alpha lipoic acid, magnesium/zinc, folic acid, B-12, fishoil, 81 asprin, and melatonin. I did supplement chromium at one point, but most people get enough in diet. My last lab report had total cholesterol of 140 and HDL of 61. Triglycerides were less than HDL. There is a tendency for LDL to go up when triglycerides go down because VLDL are reduced and the size of the LDL increases (which is not considered bad). (snipped) 23. I have purchased additional supplements for Chromium 200mg, B Complex, Vitamin C 300mg, Zinc 50mg, and Vitamin E 400 IU, but haven't started taking them yet. The Multi-vitamin/mineral supplement has all except Vitamin E, but in much smaller doses. I'm currently reluctant to take these yet because I don't like the idea of popping so many pills and because I'd like to see if the basic supplement is sufficient. Does anyone here have any comments, especially pertaining to LDL reduction, with taking larger doses of these supplements? Two grams a day of Vitamin C a day is not bad for a type 2. Likewise 800 IU of Vitamin E. B-12 and folic acid can reduce homocystine. Anti-inflamation is a good goal for cardiovascular health. Frank
Answers:
"RK" <xxx~xxx.net wrote in message news:EGoLa.2719$zE.2418~fe1.columbus.rr.com... Julie.. beg to differ with you on this one, my new doctor told me to start taking Niacin (Inositol Hexanicotinate) which is the Flush Free stuff. Said to start at 1 a day, and work my way up over a few weeks, to 3x a day. and after 3months come back for new blood tests to see if it's helping. It hasn't raised my BG yet. LOL and looking at the grass wrong some days seems to raise it. was $3.98 for 100 of the 500mg at Walmart. I took niacin some years ago. It was prescription and I ramped up to a very high dose. The stuff I took was not flush free. Things may have changed since then. I quit taking it when I got pregnant, quit smoking and no longer had a cholesterol problem. I have read several references to niacin possibly raising BG. It might not for everyone. -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Answers:
On 29 Jun 2003 11:13:03 GMT, dabrahamso <member~here.org wrote: I am also a type 2 diabetic diagnosed 3 years ago. I started Atkins June 1 2002 and stuck with it faithfully for 5 months. I lost 25 lbs and I was taken off my metformin as my blood sugar levels were excellent. 5.2 to 7.2 daily. A1C came in at 6.1 Dr was very happy. I started eating some things with more carbs than I should have after the 5 months, as I got bored and found weight loss slow and then I gave up completely. Since Oct 2002 to June 1, 2003 I gained back all 25 lbs plus another 10. June 1, 2003 I decided to go back on Atkins, I had put myself back on metformin in Mar 2003 as my blood sugar was averaging 8.0 to 10.2 daily from the carbs. Since June 1, 2003 I have lost 11 lbs and stopped my metformin again as blood sugar has gone back down to better levels. All I can say is I feel much better on Atkins, my blood sugar levels are excellent on Atkins. Weight loss has stopped since I lost the 11 lbs in the first 2 weeks, but have had a couple of cheat days. I also haven't gained over the last couple of weeks and I have lost some inches in waist line. My own feeling is if you feel good on Atkins and diabetic issues seem to be under better contol, then I would stick with it and realize this is for life not for the weight loss only. If you go back to eating the way you used to you will gain back the weight, which would happen on any other diet in existence. The old way of eating is what got you where you are today, the change must be for life. I often have to remind myself of this, especially when I cheat. My doctor told me I have protein spilling into my urine which is early signs of kidney disease, this is also from the diabetes. She wants to see my blood pressure drop also and is concerned about protecting my kidneys. I take many supplements, I take 1 daily vitamin, 1000 mg vitamin C, 400IU vitamin E, calcium, magnesium, 1000 mg niacin, chromium was recommended to my by my doctor as a help in controlling blood sugar levels, get the GTF Chromimum, (Glucose Tolerance Factor) 200 mcg, 2400 mg omega 369 oil capsules, and B complex 100. The guest that answered all your questions makes me wonder who they are and what qualifications they have to give you those answers but all I can say, is for me this works, it makes me feel more human and it really controls my blood sugar levels. I don't feel tired and I don't feel heavy and sluggish on this woe. That's my personal story, hope it helps. Well I found it interesting and of help - so thanks. What I found important to me is your BG levels when you decided to stop dieting. It was a very important point you made about realising that dietry changes are not a temporary issue. Fortunately, I think I have realised and accepted that. There are those who probably have not, Your experience may well prod those that need it into finding their way to acceptance. I hope your kidneys hold out. Pete Diagnosed 20/03/03 Type II D&E + Metformin + Gliclazide
Answers:
Julie, I appreciate the time you've put into reading my situation and for your responses. However, you need to realize that about everything I've been doing since 2003Jun01 has been pretty well by the Atkins book and results are consistent with expectations while on Atkins. If you were aware of Atkins details, I think your reactions to some points would not have been the same. And that includes your responses to supplements. All my daily results have improved with Atkins. My BG is under control, BP down, and I'm feeling great. Weight loss has stalled, but that is most likely the result of eating too much protein, which doesn't affect ketone production. My ketone production is strictly the result of burning body fat due to my extremely low carb/glucide input and which reflects proper carb control during Atkins Induction phase. I provided a high level of detail to hopefully get response from users on experiences or info about lowering LDL. So far, the concesus is that LDL will remain the same or be slightly raised at least for the first 3 months of Atkins; thereafter, LDL may well get lower. My Internist has always been satisfied that BG is under control with any A1c readings less than 7.0%. If I maintain my recent BG avg daily readings of 5.6mmol/l (101 mg/dl) I think my next A1c's will be less than 5%. My 1 & 2 hr after meal BG readings stay within .3mmol/l (5mg/dl) of pre-meal readings. I am satisfied with the way things have gone on Atkins and am optimistic my LDL will drop from Dec/Jan/May readings of 3.38/2.76/3.16 (132/198/123) to less than 2.50 (98) within 2 months of starting Atkins. Vic
Answers:
After using a low carb strategy to control my own diabetes for most of five years, I've found you have to go a step beyond the diet books to make it work--because the real challenge is to stick with it for the long term. Your enemies are boredom and feelings of deprivation. So you have to craft a strategy that takes them into account. The first few months when you are losing weight and regainng energy and blood sugar control are exciting and it is pretty easy to stick with the dietary changes you need to make. But two or three years in, it gets much harder because you aren't seeing any changes--the weight loss stops, and there's no big feedback for having normal blood sugars, just the frustration of having to turn away from eating lots of foods you still would like to eat--that everyone around you eats. For me the best solution seems to be to vary between a strict low carb regimen (under 45 gms a day) and a moderately low carb regimen -up to 80 gms a day. When I eat at the higher level I take the prescription drug Precose (acarbose) to blunt the blood sugar spikes. I'll go for weeks on the strict regimen, and then relax things for a few weeks. When I am relaxing, I still have to "eat to my meter" which means I shoot for blood sugar levels that do not exceed 140 at 1 hour after a meal and 120 at 2 hours after a meal. To achieve that level I do have to take Precose and avoid eating certain foods that will spike me to where I feel terrible, like muffins. So far this strategy has worked really well for me. I get to eat the occasional servings of "forbidden" foods enough that they don't start haunting me, and I can plan for food-centered family events and occasional blow outs without injuring my health. My weight loss actually exceeded my goal (I was shooting for 145 and didn't expect to make it.) These past couple weeks I've been in relaxed mode following a nasty bout of flu and I haven't gained anything but the couple pounds of water weight I always regain when my carbs go over 50 g a day. Every so often I do eat something I really crave that I know will spike me, mostly to remind myself why I don't eat it as I'll feel horribly sick at heightened blood sugar levels that used to be normal for me. But most of the time I keep my carbs low enough that my blood sugar is normal (without any meds) and I feel that I can eat like this for years to come because the flexibility is such that I can work the food choices with the requirements of real life. The other huge benefit for me was that once I'd gotten 20 lbs off, I was able to take the first hesitant steps towards exercising, which had been too painful when I was heavier due to a serious back injury. Treadmill walking at cardio levels really does help me control blood sugar, however when I was heavy I'd be in such pain afterwards it wasn't worth it. So for me the basic strategy was: 1. Six months of mostly strict low carb with one day "vacations" at holidays and planned intervals. 2. Begin very cautious exercise program when 20 lbs lost. 3. Cycle between moderate and low carb menus once target normal weight achieved while maintaining exercise. 4. Enjoy a heightened energy level, physical fitness and general amazement that my health is so much better than it used to be! -- Jenny 4.1/1.1/1.5 Third Goal 5/1998 - 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * NEW! Exercise Starting from Zero "Pete" <aspen3~btinternet.com wrote in message news:bdmm8p$ugk2d$1~ID-149365.news.dfncis.de... On 29 Jun 2003 11:13:03 GMT, dabrahamso <member~here.org wrote: I am also a type 2 diabetic diagnosed 3 years ago. I started Atkins June 1 2002 and stuck with it faithfully for 5 months. I lost 25 lbs and I was taken off my metformin as my blood sugar levels were excellent. 5.2 to 7.2 daily. A1C came in at 6.1 Dr was very happy. I started eating some things with more carbs than I should have after the 5 months, as I got bored and found weight loss slow and then I gave up completely. Since Oct 2002 to June 1, 2003 I gained back all 25 lbs plus another 10. June 1, 2003 I decided to go back on Atkins, I had put myself back on metformin in Mar 2003 as my blood sugar was averaging 8.0 to 10.2 daily from the carbs. Since June 1, 2003 I have lost 11 lbs and stopped my metformin again as blood sugar has gone back down to better levels. All I can say is I feel much better on Atkins, my blood sugar levels are excellent on Atkins. Weight loss has stopped since I lost the 11 lbs in the first 2 weeks, but have had a couple of cheat days. I also haven't gained over the last couple of weeks and I have lost some inches in waist line. My own feeling is if you feel good on Atkins and diabetic issues seem to be under better contol, then I would stick with it and realize this is for life not for the weight loss only. If you go back to eating the way you used to you will gain back the weight, which would happen on any other diet in existence. The old way of eating is what got you where you are today, the change must be for life. I often have to remind myself of this, especially when I cheat. My doctor told me I have protein spilling into my urine which is early signs of kidney disease, this is also from the diabetes. She wants to see my blood pressure drop also and is concerned about protecting my kidneys. I take many supplements, I take 1 daily vitamin, 1000 mg vitamin C, 400IU vitamin E, calcium, magnesium, 1000 mg niacin, chromium was recommended to my by my doctor as a help in controlling blood sugar levels, get the GTF Chromimum, (Glucose Tolerance Factor) 200 mcg, 2400 mg omega 369 oil capsules, and B complex 100. The guest that answered all your questions makes me wonder who they are and what qualifications they have to give you those answers but all I can say, is for me this works, it makes me feel more human and it really controls my blood sugar levels. I don't feel tired and I don't feel heavy and sluggish on this woe. That's my personal story, hope it helps. Well I found it interesting and of help - so thanks. What I found important to me is your BG levels when you decided to stop dieting. It was a very important point you made about realising that dietry changes are not a temporary issue. Fortunately, I think I have realised and accepted that. There are those who probably have not, Your experience may well prod those that need it into finding their way to acceptance. I hope your kidneys hold out. Pete Diagnosed 20/03/03 Type II D&E + Metformin + Gliclazide
Answers:
"Vic" <Vic~usa.net wrote in message news:k7qtfv85mvfg3nrm5uoho1fuhgmijd15u8~4ax.com... Julie, I appreciate the time you've put into reading my situation and for your responses. However, you need to realize that about everything I've been doing since 2003Jun01 has been pretty well by the Atkins book and results are consistent with expectations while on Atkins. If you were aware of Atkins details, I think your reactions to some points would not have been the same. And that includes your responses to supplements. All my daily results have improved with Atkins. My BG is under control, BP down, and I'm feeling great. I have read his book because my husband thought he was going to do that diet. He ultimately did not because there is no way he could stick to it. As for the chromium, I don't care what Atkins has to say. There are plenty of other sources that say it is unsafe for people to use. And if you look on the bottle, there is a warning for diabetics not to take it. Look on your bottle. It's there! Weight loss has stalled, but that is most likely the result of eating too much protein, which doesn't affect ketone production. My ketone production is strictly the result of burning body fat due to my extremely low carb/glucide input and which reflects proper carb control during Atkins Induction phase. I provided a high level of detail to hopefully get response from users on experiences or info about lowering LDL. So far, the concesus is that LDL will remain the same or be slightly raised at least for the first 3 months of Atkins; thereafter, LDL may well get lower. My Internist has always been satisfied that BG is under control with any A1c readings less than 7.0%. If I maintain my recent BG avg daily readings of 5.6mmol/l (101 mg/dl) I think my next A1c's will be less than 5%. My 1 & 2 hr after meal BG readings stay within .3mmol/l (5mg/dl) of pre-meal readings. Your Internist might be satisfied with those numbers. But what is normal for your lab? 7.0 is high and is not good control. I know a type 1 who says her Dr. thinks that number is good for type 1's. It is not good for type 2's. I am satisfied with the way things have gone on Atkins and am optimistic my LDL will drop from Dec/Jan/May readings of 3.38/2.76/3.16 (132/198/123) to less than 2.50 (98) within 2 months of starting Atkins. Whatever works for you. -- Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
Answers:
"Julie Bove" <jnospambove~bestweb.net wrote in message news:vfso6nhrh98a3a~corp.supernews.com... : "RK" <xxx~xxx.net wrote in message : news:EGoLa.2719$zE.2418~fe1.columbus.rr.com... : : Julie.. beg to differ with you on this one, my new doctor : told me to start taking Niacin (Inositol Hexanicotinate) : which is the Flush Free : stuff. : Said to start at 1 a day, and work my way up over a few : weeks, to 3x a : day. : and after 3months come back for new blood tests to see if : it's helping. : : It hasn't raised my BG yet. LOL and looking at the grass : wrong some days seems to raise it. : : was $3.98 for 100 of the 500mg at Walmart. : : I took niacin some years ago. It was prescription and I : ramped up to a very : high dose. The stuff I took was not flush free. Things may : have changed since then. I quit taking it when I got : pregnant, quit smoking and no longer had a cholesterol : problem. I have read several references to niacin : possibly raising BG. It might not for everyone. : : -- : Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ : yep, things might have changed, my only cholesterol problem is still my HDL riding at 33. because I can't exercise I can't get it higher, and i've tried red wine at night, putrid stuff.. yuck! so doc said to try the niacin this time see if it works instead. RK T1 - 5/00
Answers:
In article <bdms1e$bl$2~bob.news.rcn.net, "Jenny" <jenny_the_bean~yahoo.com wrote: After using a low carb strategy to control my own diabetes for most of five years, I've found you have to go a step beyond the diet books to make it work--because the real challenge is to stick with it for the long term. Your enemies are boredom and feelings of deprivation. So you have to craft a strategy that takes them into account. The first few months when you are losing weight and regainng energy and blood sugar control are exciting and it is pretty easy to stick with the dietary changes you need to make. But two or three years in, it gets much harder because you aren't seeing any changes--the weight loss stops, and there's no big feedback for having normal blood sugars, just the frustration of having to turn away from eating lots of foods you still would like to eat--that everyone around you eats. For me the best solution seems to be to vary between a strict low carb regimen (under 45 gms a day) and a moderately low carb regimen -up to 80 gms a day. When I eat at the higher level I take the prescription drug Precose (acarbose) to blunt the blood sugar spikes. I'll go for weeks on the strict regimen, and then relax things for a few weeks. When I am relaxing, I still have to "eat to my meter" which means I shoot for blood sugar levels that do not exceed 140 at 1 hour after a meal and 120 at 2 hours after a meal. To achieve that level I do have to take Precose and avoid eating certain foods that will spike me to where I feel terrible, like muffins. So far this strategy has worked really well for me. I get to eat the occasional servings of "forbidden" foods enough that they don't start haunting me, and I can plan for food-centered family events and occasional blow outs without injuring my health. My weight loss actually exceeded my goal (I was shooting for 145 and didn't expect to make it.) These past couple weeks I've been in relaxed mode following a nasty bout of flu and I haven't gained anything but the couple pounds of water weight I always regain when my carbs go over 50 g a day. Every so often I do eat something I really crave that I know will spike me, mostly to remind myself why I don't eat it as I'll feel horribly sick at heightened blood sugar levels that used to be normal for me. But most of the time I keep my carbs low enough that my blood sugar is normal (without any meds) and I feel that I can eat like this for years to come because the flexibility is such that I can work the food choices with the requirements of real life. The other huge benefit for me was that once I'd gotten 20 lbs off, I was able to take the first hesitant steps towards exercising, which had been too painful when I was heavier due to a serious back injury. Treadmill walking at cardio levels really does help me control blood sugar, however when I was heavy I'd be in such pain afterwards it wasn't worth it. So for me the basic strategy was: 1. Six months of mostly strict low carb with one day "vacations" at holidays and planned intervals. 2. Begin very cautious exercise program when 20 lbs lost. 3. Cycle between moderate and low carb menus once target normal weight achieved while maintaining exercise. 4. Enjoy a heightened energy level, physical fitness and general amazement that my health is so much better than it used to be! Thanks, Jenny! Your contributions are very often a big help to me. I've been trying to get some help from my clinician(s) so I can take some vacations from strict low-carbing and ease up on the burden of deprivation, but my internist won't prescribe anything for me because my last A1c was 5.6. My numbers are excellent so I "don't need meds." Sorry, but all my needs are not measured by my A1c, which I have achieved by fairly strict low-carbing. ("Diabetics dont' like by their A1c alone?") So I got an appointment with a diabetologist for early September. I figure that will give me time before the holidays to get the hang of some med(s) that will let me eat a small serving of mashed potatoes at Thanksgiving dinner (which I host). I also want to try metformin, since I'm learning that countering insulin resistance will be protective of my heart and will likely also help me drop some body mass. Priscilla -- Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum. (thanks be to Brian Jones and topfive.com)
Diabetes Mellitus Type
Diabetes Nursing

©2010-2012 Diabetes With People All right reserved.map